Subject	You are exactly right. I just didn't want to have to
Posted by	DougG on November 04, 2004 at 3:55 PM
	This message has been viewed 38 times.
In Reply To	NAFTA is only North America. (n/m) posted by Marshall on November 04, 2004 at 02:43 PM
Message	go into too much detail, but now I have to. The agreement was originally limited, but the legislation was expanded world wide because of the success. (while the success part is debatable philosophically) The point is the removal of tarriffs. They were used to level the playing field to combat exactly what Seedy talking about. Thanks though, I love an intelligent debate and I really appreciate Seedy's passion.
Follow Ups	Captain Losing Battle strikes again - SeedyROM 13:02:32 11/04/04 well said (n/m) - Luke@tirerack 13:09:12 11/04/04 Good point... - College Boy 13:09:31 11/04/04 Yeah, it's not just that one example of pipes though - SeedyROM 13:11:55 11/04/04 Thing is that I added up the price for what i want... - College Boy 13:18:45 11/04/04 True of the Midori upper arms getting copied also - Technomancer 13:40:49 11/04/04 That slides because the product isn't made anymore - SeedyROM 13:51:00 11/04/04 Re: That slides because the product isn't made anymore - Ionic (www.IonicDynamics.com) 14:04:18 11/04/04 Exploitation of someone elses design is your forte. All of - Zeorymer 23:55:33 11/04/04 Re: Exploitation of someone elses design is your forte. All of - Ionic (www.IonicDynamics.com) 14:05:33 11/05/04 i just read that off the original thread, its sad... (n/m) - mousersix (San Antonio) 13:10:48 11/04/04 I understand your point and what you are saying - ZXRider 13:18:17 11/04/04 Here Here! (n/m) - boileralum 13:32:40 11/04/04 Please stop whining. - Kenny 13:38:02 11/04/04 You don't have to read it if you don't like it - SeedyROM 13:45:28 11/04/04 Re: You don't have to read it if you don't like it - Kenny 13:59:21 11/04/04 Here you go>>> - SeedyROM 14:10:13 11/04/04 I agree. - Kenny 14:16:16 11/04/04 Works for me - SeedyROM 14:47:17 11/04/04 How do you patent something you didn't invent??? (n/m) - Zeorymer 23:30:13 11/04/04 Remember, if the design is different and the old style is - SeedyROM 00:17:02 11/05/04 it generally takes a minumum of 2 years to recieve a patent. - ni[X]it 13:51:07 11/04/04 Patent pending does afford you legal protection. (n/m) - Kenny 14:05:00 11/04/04 "patent pending" has no legal significance - aliaZ 16:42:55 11/04/04 Looks like my source was wrong =(. ack. (n/m) - Kenny 17:14:58 11/04/04 it just depends on the lawyer game (n/m) - SuparexTT 01:29:56 11/05/04 You are missing the point. - olyar15 13:54:31 11/04/04 Z33 ? Just look how they are reproducing the 350Z parts. - govaardz(Aruba) 16:09:53 11/04/04 And the point is, that market is growing, so even with - olyar15 16:34:43 11/04/04 Re: Please stop whining. - Ionic (www.IonicDynamics.com) 13:57:16 11/04/04 Re: Re: Please stop whining. - Kenny 14:07:35 11/04/04 Here is the catch, and it's a major one: - Marshall 14:02:55 11/04/04 Right... - Kenny 14:06:53 11/04/04 Usually the costs to enforce a patent outweigh - Ionic (www.IonicDynamics.com) 14:24:12 11/04/04 Please provide some objective data to back up your argument. - Kenny 14:29:27 11/04/04 Re: Please provide some objective data to back up your argument. - kuah@splparts.com 15:05:13 11/04/04 One simple example: - Ionic (www.IonicDynamics.com) 15:06:37 11/04/04 Excellent information, thank you both (this goes for Kuah 2) (n/m) - Kenny 15:21:13 11/04/04 Great post - SeedyROM 15:39:01 11/04/04 I think the twin dump downpipe had been around for - colocomp (Denver) 14:24:45 11/04/04 Correct and correct. You can not patent a product once it - Scotts94z32 14:28:31 11/04/04 The split pipes for the Z32 has been around before - govaardz(Aruba) 16:02:55 11/04/04 seconded. - ni[X]it 13:46:01 11/04/04 Yeah, too bad you don't have any products that would - boileralum 13:48:49 11/04/04 actually, as I remember he does... (n/m) - Technomancer 13:56:36 11/04/04 unfortunantly, the plenum is not much a secret... - ni[X]it 13:59:29 11/04/04 I was also thinking of the rear diffuser project (n/m) - Technomancer 14:04:06 11/04/04 wow. good memory. - ni[X]it 14:07:25 11/04/04 I hope the redesigned plenum isn't [X]'ed. That could be a - whitepearlz (Defi Whore) 14:21:46 11/04/04 Just on hold until I get the time and money, - ni[X]it 14:42:38 11/04/04 I just contacted a friend at a machineshop - red300zxtt 14:46:43 11/04/04 Sounds good, Nixit. But please do keep us updated.. this is - whitepearlz (Defi Whore) 21:55:57 11/04/04 thats interesting, Im just custom fitting some 76mm throttle - ZisLuv 23:22:26 11/04/04 No I dont think so, I would support greg if his downpipes - red300zxtt 13:56:43 11/04/04 No one even dignify him a response - SeedyROM 14:02:20 11/04/04 unfortunately you are just one of many groupies here - red300zxtt 14:06:00 11/04/04 Re: unfortunately - ni[X]it 14:10:47 11/04/04 id gladly place bets on tested, proven, and highly>> - mousersix (San Antonio) 16:07:26 11/04/04 ITS NOT A COPY, he uses rebadged magnaflow cans - red300zxtt 17:26:49 11/04/04 Actually he uses Sebring mufflers - trackstar 20:44:16 11/04/04 which are magnaflows........ (n/m) - red300zxtt 20:55:41 11/04/04 He only recently only used Sebring. I have Magnaflows from - Zeorymer 23:20:20 11/04/04 you seem to be defending this guy to the death - mousersix (San Antonio) 02:10:02 11/05/04 you're wrong, stop posting. - red300zxtt 07:53:48 11/05/04 Re: you're wrong, stop posting. - mousersix (San Antonio) 10:25:46 11/05/04 Golf clap..... tell it like it is! :) (n/m) - Zeorymer 23:16:27 11/04/04 You ever figure out what a box-end wrench is? (n/m) - Snoguitar 14:23:07 11/04/04 Why don't YOU take a second to tell us what you know - Scotts94z32 14:25:57 11/04/04 dont take it personal but... - TARGETZ 14:35:30 11/04/04 I just checked my profile, I'm safe :) (n/m) - ni[X]it 14:38:01 11/04/04 Im not :-) - TARGETZ 14:41:36 11/04/04 No you are not (n/m) - kuah@splparts.com 19:03:43 11/04/04 No offense taken... some answers... - Scotts94z32 15:00:12 11/04/04 Dear Scott, I'd kill for dp's with external exhaust turbine - Kenny 15:06:59 11/04/04 Ask Santa, he may have lower overhead.. ;p (n/m) - Scotts94z32 15:10:41 11/04/04 Re: Ask Santa, he may have lower overhead.. ;p - Kenny 15:22:46 11/04/04 Ask Greg about these and see what he tells you. - Woody75 (Denver) 15:44:30 11/04/04 Mine is the first and only design. Greg can improve - AzHeat 16:00:25 11/04/04 Guy in Austrailia has a set up as well. - Woody75 (Denver) 16:25:20 11/04/04 Couldn't you just modify existing split down pipes? (n/m) - College Boy 15:55:58 11/04/04 I certainly couldn't =). That may be a good starting... - Kenny 16:46:03 11/04/04 LOL - but that makes no sense either - why would you spend - Unluky (MO) 14:56:51 11/04/04 Re: LOL - but that makes no sense either - why would you spend - ni[X]it 15:04:32 11/04/04 Oh, please, you look for validation for your thoughts all - AzHeat 15:10:03 11/04/04 Please be careful where you step Micheal. - ni[X]it 15:16:31 11/04/04 Ease up there Az - SeedyROM 15:35:49 11/04/04 Didn't mean to responed to you Nix-but anyway - to me - Unluky (MO) 15:21:34 11/04/04 the fact of the matter is that charging so much - cafenated 13:50:54 11/04/04 Our cars have TWO of nearly everything, don't forget that - SeedyROM 14:00:33 11/04/04 2 of everything but 4 times the price - cafenated 14:11:12 11/04/04 Call up Labree and ask them how long it takes - SeedyROM 14:22:25 11/04/04 Perfectly said, materials and labor are only a small part - Ionic (www.IonicDynamics.com) 14:33:19 11/04/04 Yea whatever, here are the things to come: Greed - red300zxtt 14:40:41 11/04/04 Hey, IF you were right, no one would buy the stuff - SeedyROM 14:58:06 11/04/04 I can assure you that he wont - red300zxtt 15:09:10 11/04/04 Riiiiight (n/m) - SeedyROM 15:16:04 11/04/04 2nd. (n/m) - Snoguitar 15:18:24 11/04/04 The initial R&D is insignificant if you price your product - cafenated 14:53:57 11/04/04 In a limited market (Z32s), R&D costs are everything. (n/m) - ni[X]it 14:59:26 11/04/04 Exactly, and if you produce them in the sates the costs are - Ionic (www.IonicDynamics.com) 15:10:51 11/04/04 LOL... you are clueless (n/m) - Scotts94z32 14:35:55 11/04/04 ok...no - red300zxtt 14:14:59 11/04/04 your posts make my head hurt (n/m) - JuicycJ4(SWMO) 14:32:01 11/04/04 He's comparing it to an exhaust made for a - lakerdude42 14:33:19 11/04/04 Unfortunately you have no idea what you're talking about - red300zxtt 14:38:04 11/04/04 lol , I used the Enzo as an example of what - lakerdude42 14:48:33 11/04/04 would you like pics of my exhaust? - red300zxtt 14:55:07 11/04/04 damn, if labree is so shitty, why do so many people swear - mousersix (San Antonio) 21:17:13 11/04/04 Brain washed maybe. Possibly Low self-esteem w/ the need to - Zeorymer 23:42:54 11/04/04 If you don't see the connection then I'm not explaining it - SeedyROM 14:38:50 11/04/04 A note about the $700 Jspec Tails price... - YugoBernie (NoVA) 14:21:15 11/04/04 Thanks Bernie, I could have used a better example - SeedyROM 14:24:56 11/04/04 Agreed. (n/m) - YugoBernie (NoVA) 14:25:35 11/04/04 ...and I can't help but think some of the other vendors... - Kenny 14:26:05 11/04/04 Indeed, I said that here: - SeedyROM 14:29:23 11/04/04 The costs of most metals has gone up ~25-50% over the past - Scotts94z32 14:37:54 11/04/04 there was other venders too - TARGETZ 14:29:43 11/04/04 Yep. I remember when the JSpec facia was around $1000 - ENVYMYZ 15:02:34 11/04/04 And Bernie what about the 99 jspec sideskirts ? - govaardz(Aruba) 16:12:04 11/04/04 They really cost that much. (n/m) - YugoBernie (NoVA) 16:17:50 11/04/04 Would it be legal to copy those ? And also make them for the - govaardz(Aruba) 16:19:54 11/04/04 Reproduction body panels are all over the market, no law - YugoBernie (NoVA) 16:29:43 11/04/04 Why are JWT ecu's still $695? They haven't - AzHeat 14:24:23 11/04/04 They are nuts - SeedyROM 14:37:27 11/04/04 Wrong. The issue is not nearly that simple. - Marshall 14:12:52 11/04/04 sure it is - cafenated 14:22:03 11/04/04 Actually, yes. - SeedyROM 14:35:28 11/04/04 Re: Actually, yes. - cafenated 14:46:39 11/04/04 Please read my ENTIRE message - SeedyROM 14:53:32 11/04/04 I did read your entire message - cafenated 14:55:43 11/04/04 Okay, I'll make it more clear - SeedyROM 15:04:47 11/04/04 Finally, a statement you made that I can partially agree - red300zxtt 15:14:27 11/04/04 Here, I have an offer for you>>> - SeedyROM 15:24:41 11/04/04 k that's nice, my craptacular ebay downpipes - red300zxtt 15:48:56 11/04/04 How about you call him and record the conversaton... - Snoguitar 16:01:50 11/04/04 Bro.. it's WIDGET... spell it with me. W-I-D-G-E-T - Smurf Z 16:16:35 11/04/04 R&D? i don't think so. (n/m) - Zeorymer 23:49:16 11/04/04 Unless you mean.... - Zeorymer 00:07:18 11/05/04 you mean - TARGETZ 14:16:14 11/04/04 Yep! Some reputable vendors here are guilty of it too. - SeedyROM 14:24:04 11/04/04 Re: Yep! Some reputable vendors here are guilty of it too. - TARGETZ 14:28:43 11/04/04 I wasn't able to :( - SeedyROM 14:31:59 11/04/04 I think the problem was - TARGETZ 14:38:33 11/04/04 That may be - SeedyROM 14:40:00 11/04/04 About the arms - govaardz(Aruba) 15:08:26 11/04/04 wow thanks for the link! Just ordered myself a pair. (n/m) - red300zxtt 15:16:38 11/04/04 Re: you mean - kuah@splparts.com 14:45:56 11/04/04 Thanks for clarifying that - SeedyROM 14:49:32 11/04/04 (extensive) rumor has it, - ni[X]it 14:54:49 11/04/04 Re: (extensive) rumor has it, - kuah@splparts.com 15:23:04 11/04/04 New Thread on patents - dvlhntr 00:41:24 11/05/04 Well a subframe bushing can't be made different. (n/m) - govaardz(Aruba) 15:27:49 11/04/04 I was looking at old Options Mag. in 1996 and - Spongerider :) 16:03:05 11/04/04 Exactly.... - govaardz(Aruba) 16:15:00 11/04/04 Re: Re: you mean - TARGETZ 14:56:30 11/04/04 Kuah's parts are made in Japan - govaardz(Aruba) 15:01:28 11/04/04 How about... - dpjax 18:39:46 11/04/04 Re: Re: Re: you mean - kuah@splparts.com 15:43:31 11/04/04 I guess that is the legal question - TARGETZ 17:28:35 11/04/04 You know, I was going to buy the Ebay ones till you posted - aggiez32 14:28:56 11/04/04 All I have to say is....WERD (n/m) - RAGTPZ(OH) 14:38:52 11/04/04 NAFTA baby. It's not just jobs going over seas, it's the - DougG 14:39:22 11/04/04 NAFTA is only North America. (n/m) - Marshall 14:43:41 11/04/04 2nd-Nothing to do with China/Japan that are kicking our butt (n/m) - Unluky (MO) 15:03:56 11/04/04 they aren't kicking our butt. - Marshall 15:11:12 11/04/04 Yeah-go look our export/import levels. They are a joke. - Unluky (MO) 15:34:46 11/04/04 Re: Yeah-go look our export/import levels. They are a joke. - Dustin 15:44:21 11/04/04 People like you want to see the USA fail. - Marshall 16:28:00 11/04/04 Get off your high horse dude - stating the facts does not - Unluky (MO) 17:05:57 11/04/04 I never said this: - Marshall 09:57:16 11/05/04 You are exactly right. I just didn't want to have to - DougG 15:55:47 11/04/04 NAFTA was not expanded worldwide. Don't know where - Dustin 16:19:56 11/04/04 Didn't read it. Lived it. About a year after NAFTA was - DougG 19:52:18 11/04/04 Wow. interesting discussion. I think you are going to be - SwatsavZ 14:41:16 11/04/04 Oh, that hit landed! Japanese auto industry - Technomancer 14:46:35 11/04/04 And they only excelled because they made them "better" - SeedyROM 14:52:15 11/04/04 Excellent point. They not only made them better, they - DougG 16:03:14 11/04/04 Let's not forget they also made things people actually - dilo 18:08:45 11/04/04 lol, i feel what you're saying. I have conflicting - SwatsavZ 14:52:25 11/04/04 hahaha (n/m) - red300zxtt 14:51:01 11/04/04 Are you going to ride coattails all day long? (n/m) - SeedyROM 14:55:16 11/04/04 What'd you expect? That's what this whole thread is about! (n/m) - Technomancer 14:57:01 11/04/04 ROFL! Touche :) (n/m) - SeedyROM 14:58:45 11/04/04 I just bought a fantastic pair of smoked turn signals - red300zxtt 14:58:20 11/04/04 Good for you - SeedyROM 15:00:00 11/04/04 This whole thread should be nuked. (n/m) - red300zxtt 15:22:49 11/04/04 Use your VTD rights. (n/m) - SeedyROM 15:36:17 11/04/04 Too busy shopping on ebay for Z parts, sorry. (n/m) - red300zxtt 15:38:44 11/04/04 Don't like it? Don't read / post in it. (n/m) - Smurf Z 15:49:56 11/04/04 You can't expect consumers to pay more... - dpjax 18:41:35 11/04/04 Too bad they arent really "smoked" lol - ENVYMYZ 15:10:08 11/04/04 he's worthless (n/m) - Red300ztt96 15:39:19 11/04/04 i must concur (n/m) - mousersix (San Antonio) 21:01:51 11/04/04 LOL - good call. We are bashing people for buying parts - Unluky (MO) 15:07:16 11/04/04 Wow, you must be proud....dumbass (n/m) - SaVageZ™ 00:50:58 11/05/04 ?????????? - SwatsavZ 09:30:45 11/05/04 Why don't you just patent your "innovative" products? (n/m) - TWINTURBONICK 14:59:43 11/04/04 Read this section of thread for your answer: - SeedyROM 15:02:06 11/04/04 read the thread moron. (n/m) - ni[X]it 15:02:33 11/04/04 They will copy it anyways. - govaardz(Aruba) 15:03:33 11/04/04 Exactly. (n/m) - SeedyROM 15:05:35 11/04/04 Hotshot was having issues with their headers being copied... - Crim 15:11:39 11/04/04 Absolutely! But ask them now if they'd do it again - SeedyROM 15:13:21 11/04/04 I understand, but there is nothing you can do - silver_fairlady 15:12:19 11/04/04 "Lost Cause" :) (n/m) - SeedyROM 15:16:44 11/04/04 Seedy vs. Capitalism. - AzHeat 15:38:33 11/04/04 Way to whittle it down :) (n/m) - SeedyROM 15:41:26 11/04/04 A list of ebay copies - govaardz(Aruba) 15:41:43 11/04/04 Nobody said it was fair. Fair and capitalism are - AzHeat 15:54:05 11/04/04 agreed (n/m) - Spee 16:52:26 11/04/04 I'm afraid the US is in a bad position. Let me sum it up. - Marshall 17:17:10 11/04/04 Very interesting topic. - RSR 19:01:25 11/04/04 Re: Very interesting topic. - Marshall 07:09:59 11/05/04 With this one I agree with you big time SeedyROM - cafenated 10:11:09 11/05/04 Eventually things will equalize - Guy (SoCal) 17:50:43 11/04/04 They will, but it could take hundreds of years. - Marshall 07:17:41 11/05/04 Repost. (n/m) - hoss 19:29:47 11/04/04 I know for a fact that other countries like Australia were - Zeorymer 23:27:47 11/04/04 And Japan - SeedyROM 00:15:46 11/05/04 my 2 cents..... with a new thread to come later - dvlhntr 00:49:56 11/05/04 goes to show you who the true car enthusiasts are - Polish 01:08:06 11/05/04
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